#It's obviously a very nuance topic

[halliescomut]

BL Hot Take? - Acting Pairs & Age Gaps

This is likely not actually a hot take, but I'm interested in the conversation as a whole and I want to post my thoughts.

I have seen, for obvious reasons an uptick in discussions regarding age gaps for actors paired together. I tend to call these sets of actors acting pairs or acting partners, and that's how I'll refer to them here. All it means is two actors who work together portraying multiple characters and in each set of media those characters are in a relationship with each other. It's not to indicate the personal relationship between the actors themselves is romantic. We have multiple examples of acting pairs: Earth and Mix, Ohm and Fluke, Boun and Prem. These examples all have very minor differences in their ages, Earth-Mix's being the widest at 4 years. A good amount of the acting pairs in most of the shows from the last couple of years are usually 6-7 year age differences or less, when their characters themselves are meant to be approximately the same age. It is of course different with series depicting couples where the characters have a significant age gap like 180 Degree Longitude and Minato's Laundromat.

Now, for the more problematic acting pairs. So, in general when you see this discussion you have 4 key examples being brought up. Zee and Nunew, Max and Nat, Cooheart and Santa, and Jeff and Barcode. All of these acting pairs have an 8+ year age difference. Their characters have a range of age differences with Zee and Nunew's characters in Cutie Pie having what looks to be about a 6-8 year age difference, Jeff and Barcode's a 5-6 year age difference, and Santa and Cooheart's no age difference at all.

Now age differences between actors in acting pairs is incredibly common. You will most often see it with straight couples since we are discussing repeat pairings my example is Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson who have a ten year age difference. But it's also present in queer couples too. One of the wildest examples being in Pretty Little Liars where you see a 31 year old (Bianca Lawson) and 23 year old (Shay Mitchell) playing a 16-17 year old couple.

When it comes to the acceptability of these age gaps among actors, when that same age gap is not being presented in the characters, it is going to be a little bit of a 'your mileage may vary' situation. For me personally it comes down to what those actors are being asked to portray, in addition to the age of the younger actor. So for the examples previously set, upon their first acting roles as a pair Barcode, Santa, and Nat were all underage during filming, and nowhere in those series are they doing anything even remotely close to an NC scene or really even something that wouldn't be allowed on primetime TV or in a PG movie. In contrast, Nunew was 20 and Nat was 19 when they filmed the Cutie Pie series. The NC scenes for Nunew and Zee, while not graphic are more explicit and more focused on because they're the main couple. Nat's romantic scenes with Max are much shorter and more allusionary. As we move into 2023 we are supposed to get a Max and Nat lead series focusing on their Cutie Pie characters, which Nat will be 20 years old very close to 21 at the time of filming. It's likely those romantic scenes will more closely mirror what we've seen so far from Zee and Nunew, which is a PG-13+ level as far as western standards.

So, since we all know this topic is up again because of Jeff and Barcode let's talk about their upcoming series. The series itself is being done as a collaboration with a Korean production company and is set in Korea. The vibe of the trailer does more closely match what you normally see with Korean BLs. It is likely that it will also maintain the common standard that Korean BL tends to have as far as sex scenes. It's also been mentioned that it's a comedy. It's HIGHLY unlikely there would be any scene closely resembling the sex scenes from KinnPorsche. It wouldn't fit with the intended atmosphere they're creating. If it's depicted at all, it's likely to maintain a more atmospheric and romantic quality versus being graphic or explicit. Probably the closest comparison would be Roommates of Poongduck 304.

Now, I will be honest with you, I don't think any actor who's underage should be portraying anything more explicit than what's allowed before 8 pm on a weeknight on network television (which just comes down to kissing, maybe hands under clothing, allusion to clothing removal, then fade to black). I feel this way regardless of the age of their acting partner, and regardless of the age of the character. It's unnecessary and exploitative.

If the actor is over 18, they are a legally an adult and able to make their own decisions about the roles they play. This includes anything encroaching on explicit territory. If you are 18, 19, 20, you are an adult. You have your own voice and ability to use it. There are of course circumstances that can make things problematic, which is behind the scenes persons pressuring an actor to do more than they feel comfortable, and lack of advocates in production spaces. But those are also INDUSTRY problems and are not the fault of the actor or their partner. In the west specifically there has been a push to have intimacy coordinators present for the filming of any scenes intended to show sex. Their job is to advocate on behalf of the actors and help ensure a safe working environment. It's also very common to have closed sets and minimal staff for filming these types of scenes. I can't speak directly to the standards in East Asia, I simply don't have enough information. All I can guess is that it's unlikely that anyone not required to be there to keep filming going would be on set for those types of scenes, because why are you going to pay people to be there when they're not actively needed.

I think what leads to a dissonance with seeing these acting pairs is the fanservice that is encouraged (and occasionally required) by production companies. It blurs lines to have these actors doing performative affection with their acting partners outside of filming or workshopping. I truly think that's where the icky feeling comes from for your average viewer. You are more often seeing the actors (not the characters) behaving in a couple-y romantic way while being aware of that age difference and then you're seeing private bedroom moments on screen in the series.

Another thing I want to note, just because you feel someone is too young or too innocent for portraying sex in a series or film, if they're legal adults they're simply not. Like I'm not gonna claim I know who's a virgin and who isn't, but by 18 years old practically everyone knows what sex is, has thought about having it, and there's a reasonable chance they've had it. Found this fun chart based around a study done by the Durex condom company:

So I guess in conclusion, you can feel the way you feel, but try not to infantilize grown adults, and be sure to keep characters and actors separate. Promoting and encouraging safe work environments for actors is very important, so spread the word about intimacy coordinators. And as always, if actors are reporting exploitative and abusive work environments, whether on set or not, believe them and hold those companies accountable however you can.

[werebutch]

as respectfully as i can say this, i think it's unkind to say that trans people with different mindsets abt genitals don't have 'actual' dysphoria.

unless phallo/meta surgery outcomes advance a LOT in my lifetime i'll never be able to get a dick, so i've done a lot of work on my mindset in order to survive. just because i can talk about it/find a way to feel attractive despite my situation doesn't mean the dysphoria is fake.

i think you're a really nice and considerate person, i really don't mean to be a jerk or pushy or anything by this ask!

It was an admittedly rude joke + i understand that some trans people cant get or dont want some surgeries.. because i am one. im on the same page with you, i wouldn’t get phallo unless it advances and maybe not even at all. Truly have no idea bc im young. right now in my life i dont even plan to get my boobs fully removed because im dissatisfied with how plus size peoples’ scars currently look. So i understand. Genuinely appreciate this and not trying to sound sarcastic. Its really not my problem (and irl i dont make it my problem.. not to pat myself on the back but im an extremely pleasant person. And genuine about it. So i understand people assuming that im an evil fake bitch, but that is just not it LMFAO) but it greatly pisses me off to hear transmasculine people just straight up say that hormones and surgery are gross, or they dont want it despite being trans, i guess because of how badly i want it myself lol. I guess its good that people dont feel like they have to rush into transitioning but its just really really bizarre to me that a lot of transmasculine people my age are just straight up not wanting to medically transition at all. I think that they might want to unpack the reason for that. Its kind of like the immature feeling you get in school when you hear a classmate complain about a complete non-issue in their life, acting like its horrible, while youre going through your own actual hell in your own life that you have to keep quiet about… YOU KNOW LOL?

[gertritude-art]

by the way just to clarify, I think it's totally fine if there are certain aspects of a work that make you not want to engage with it at all + make you deeply uncomfortable or angry (there are plenty of popular pieces of media I can't stand and don't want anything to do with for these reasons), just that as a general way of engaging with media, it's better to take a story as it is and to look at what is good and bad about it, rather than just view it as wholly one thing or another.

[velvety-love]

Truly fascinating to me how half the harry potter fans dni people take not a second to buy fnaf security breach and talk about going to see the movie in theaters

[lilflowerpot]

Ok, so I just read your Q'tskraal post and I know it was was literally posted yesterday, but I have a question. What if a child was disabled enough that they literally could not complete Q'tskraal? Also, how would the Galra in general react to a disabled child? What about a child that was seriously injured by an adult? And finally, do the Galra have an equivalent of neurodivergence, such as autism or adhd?

(cont.) Also, little side note: I was the person who asked if an altean alchemist could create a person, and which lion Lotor would pilot. The reason they were anonymous is because I was too lazy to make a tumblr account until recently lol

-

albinism, melanism, & genetic mutations | PTSD & service animals | mental health & disabilities | galra coming-of-age (Q'tskraal)

So because I'm not sure whether you meant to ask this in terms of physical or mental disability, I'm going to address both while still attempting to keep this answer as short as possible (which, because it's me, is still not especially short rip).

What with the Empire's emphasis on strength as a core cultural value, they've naturally invested a great deal of time and energy into prosthetics, something we see plenty of evidence of in canon—bionic arms for Shiro / Sendak / the Beta Traz Warden, a bionic leg for Ezor (s07), bionic eyes for Sendak (again) / Branko / Ranveig / Janka, and what is seemingly some sort of respiratory apparatus for the Archivist—and considering that this technology is so apparently commonplace in Imperial circles, I imagine that any and all of the Empire's physically disabled children would be offered whatever aids they required long before their Q'tskraal. As I said in my post on albinism/melanism, "Imperial medical science is excellent, and their prosthetics are often superior to the biological counterpart," meaning that there's little reason any child with a disability of this nature would be unable to participate. As for less obviously visible but still physical disabilities, such as chronic pain, I would be inclined to say that the galra, with all their millennia of scientific advancement and quintessence experimentation, have likely found a way to mitigate these conditions if not cure them entirely.

Mental disabilities, however, are quite often more complex and nuanced than their physical counterparts.

In imperial circles, mental health is almost entirely destigmatised; as with everything, there are always exceptions to the rule, but broadly speaking the galra don’t think of poor mental health as any more a show of weakness than, say, a broken limb… it’s simply a medical issue that needs professional treatment and support so that the affected individual may be as happy and healthy as they are able. [...] For things such as PTSD / anxiety / depression / OCD / bipolar / schizophrenia, psychiatric service animals (such as Laika!) are quite common throughout the Empire, and the support and companionship that they provide to their assigned individuals is considered invaluable.

So disabilities of this nature would be taken into account by the organisers of any given Q'tskraal during the planning stage. Said organisers do, of course, ensure they are intimately familiar with which members of the community will be eligible to participate when the time comes, as this ceremony is such an important one, and all pains are taken to ensure that any and all necessary accommodations can be made for all those that might require them (such as designing a Q'tskraal that avoids any individual participant's notable triggers).

Neurodivergence as a whole would, I think, exist in most (if not all) sentient beings across the universe, because brain chemistry is so varied and complex that I fail to see how it could not? To use your examples, the galra likely wouldn't know autsim or adhd by the same names that human do, but I've no doubt they'd have an equivalent! Just as with physical disabilities, every effort would be made to best accommodate any neurodivergent participant's needs as illustrated in the previous paragraph, so that they too may participate on equal footing with the rest of their peers. That being said, these things do exist on a spectrum, and this brings us to the most severe of intellectual disabilities / developmental delays, which I am,,, wary of addressing incorrectly, because I know that infantilisaion is a huge issue faced by the disabled community, so I //obviously// do not wish to add to that in any way. That being said, the purpose of a Q'tskraal is to serve as a marked transition "from the role of protected to protector" which, if an individual's condition were exceedingly severe (ie. the person in question will never mentally progress beyond a certain age, or be able to function independently in any way) is not a role they would be called upon to fulfill. Such a person would instead become known as ghijmiitah—translated from zaalkh to mean "frozen youth" and thought by those who believe in reincarnation to be souls newly born of Sa—remaining a very much loved and cared for dependent throughout their entire lives, and being attended to by the local community as a whole.

As for how imperial citizens would react to a disabled child, I've addressed almost this exact query before—

By virtue of being galra, any given individual would be considered a beloved child of Sa, and there is an inherent and entirely unmatched value in that; the true glory of the Empire is, after all, only as brilliant as the kindness and dignity with which its most vulnerable members are treated.

—and so whether the disability in question is mental or physical, it wouldn't matter! Children are immeasurably precious to the galra, so any half-decent member of the Empire would be nothing less than unfailingly gracious and compassionate, as to do otherwise would be widely viewed as a disgusting breach of etiquette and quite the indictment on the individual's character. To answer your final question, any adult who (deliberately) harmed a child would not only be tried to the fullest extent of the law, but as such a thing goes against the very core values of Imperial culture, they'd also become a social pariah and likely be disowned by their blood-family for their unthinkable actions.

[86-12]

Y'know. I think it's just very odd that B-127 just knife-handsing it up on random bots we know nothing about was totally fine, but hey, Dee, don't rip Sentinel in half that's bad!!! Like, is it because we know of him as a person, so now you feel some empathy despite everything he's done, but his soldiers don't get the same respect...?

[gibbearish]

to anyone watching the james somerton situation and going "well how DO you write your own things like this then? everyone's talking about how /not/ to but i dont know where to start, the way highschool taught me essay writing was all about the number of sentences in a paragraph and mla citations :("

you know how james made things up between his """sources""" that sounded just plausible enough that people accepted it? he did it in the wrong order, do that part first THEN research. 100% serious right now, just make some shit up in your head that sounds vaguely right based on what you know now, write it down, and then go check if you're actually right or not. boom, now you have a topic. thats literally all it is, its just you saying "i think (xyz)" and then checking to see if the facts agree with you or not. if you turn out to be right, talk about what lead you to the conclusion initially and anything you learned about that you didn't predict. if you turn out to be wrong, talk about the right answer and examine why you thought differently at first. then either way talk about how things got that way, if you think it should stay like that, and why (e.g. how does it being that way effect people right now). tada suddenly you have an essay that is unplagiarized and entirely your own thoughts, with a plethora of sources on hand to cite because That's What You Used To Check. now be free your beautiful doves

[inazuma-fulgur]

I like the scent of people but I hate the scent of sex

Like all participants can have showered until just five minutes before, done a deep clean doesn't matter

""Not all odors are bad," Sherry Ross, MD, an OB-GYN" yeah but what if I don't like them

Kids [endearing, joking] it's time to learn about your body and stis

Here's the source for the quote:

[cyberpunkboytoy]

I see a lot of people in the Mouthwashing tag frequently listing 'keeping Curly alive' in the list of crimes Jimmy has done, implying or sometimes outright saying that not mercy-killing Curly was a cruel and unusual act...and would like to caution against that.

There's a long history of abled people deciding someone's quality of life is too horrible to merit letting them live (usually to nonverbal or otherwise 'low functioning' people lacking a clear means to communicate) and condoning the murder of disabled people under the guise of kindness. Curly is an extreme example, and one could argue he might prefer to be 'put out of his misery,' but it's important to note that we don't know, no one asks, and there's no attempt to communicate either which way.

How extreme pain and 'low quality of life' are handled are very nuanced and complicated topics, but you can never decide for someone else what kind of life isn't 'worth living.' Curly is obviously a videogame character, but these attitudes can and do affect the lives of real people & are worth being aware of.

[galedekarios]

i'm reading a new interview tim downie gave about gale and it offers some of tim's own headcanons about gale, as well as tim's thoughts and insights on gale's character:

Nerds & Beyond: I like that you mentioned that the game is full of rounded characters because they are, they all have different aspects that make them feel real. I adore that Gale specifically is so serious and studious, but at the same time he has this really playful side — he often jokes about how he was a mischievous youth, he encourages other people like Arabella to do so, he understands when The Dark Urge first mentions their violent thoughts. There is a lot of nuance and depth there. But the quality that I love with Gale most is that obviously he is very ill when we first meet him – not that we know immediately – and he’s dealing with a lot of chronic pain. I find him incredibly selfless because he takes that day-to-day head on to help the party, which is an aspect I feel continues to show throughout the three acts. What’s your favorite quality of Gale’s, or what did you take away from him? Tim Downie: It’s so interesting hearing you say that, because I had so many different feedbacks about what people take from the character and sometimes things really surprise you. It’s interesting hearing that such and such has taken that particular aspect, because there are broad things like “He’s funny,” and that’s quite nice, that’s a nice trait, though not one you necessarily get to see that much. It’s so interesting hearing other people’s views about what they take from Gale.  The idea of dealing with chronic pain I found really interesting and an interesting subplot to play, and that was the great thing about doing something like this is that it is so unbelievably nuanced. You have so many layers that just keep going and going and going, as much as we all contain multitudes within ourselves. We all deal with these things, but only certain things pop up to the surface at any given point.  What did I take from Gale, though? I liked his studiousness. I would imagine that he was probably bullied as a kid for it, and he was probably a bit of a joker because he was bullied, and he uses that as a defense. But an even bigger defense for him is “I now know stuff that I didn’t before,” and that’s a power. It’s very similar to when you are being bullied and you’re the funny one – that’s your power, that’s your thing. “I may not be able to hurt you in a traditional sense, but I can say things that will make you feel pain,” which is a very different thing because you physically can’t go after them.  That’s the wonderful thing about acting and this character as well is being able to explore all these things that you might not have, that you might have gone, “I’m not gonna look at that again, I don’t want to deal with that,” and then it brings it up again and it’s like, “Oh, this is actually quite cathartic,” to re-explore these these moments of sorrow and loss and how you deal with grief and things like that and heartbreak and how you get over that.  It’s not all just tears, you do try and make a joke of it.

i really like that they are addressing the topic of gale's chronic pain. it's something that doesn't get addressed often, not even in the game itself.

i also found his answer as to why people might connect to gale very nice:

Nerds & Beyond: Gale is the most popular origin character to play as. What is it about him that you think allows so many different players to connect with him to the depths the fandom has? Tim Downie: I really don’t know. I think you’d have to ask the players that, ‘cause I don’t know, to be quite honest with you. He’s a wizard, and who wouldn’t want to be a wizard at the end of the day? I always say the difference between wizards and sorcerers is that sorcerers just pretend – they just assume they know what they’re doing, but a wizard has really learned this trade. And so there’s that kind of weight of knowledge and learning, which I would love to play as and be for a length of time.  I think it’s also the frailties. I like characters, and a lot of people do I’m assuming, that have flaws, otherwise you’ve made them completely unapproachable. To be completely superhuman or completely extraordinary at something then removes the humanity from it because it becomes like, “Well, that’s never gonna happen.” But when there’s a flaw, when there’s, “Oh, I’ve got that wrong, too,” or like, “My knees hurt” as you say, or “I’ve got a bit of a headache. I really don’t want to do this,” “You’re really annoying me, this is very annoying, could you please hurry up?” or “Stop licking the damn thing,” it’s always those moments that are fun because it shows what we’re all thinking at that point, it removes it from almost archetype and stereotype and it becomes human in a way.

gale is approachable and likeable, has flaws, but is genuinely nice. i think that very much sums up his character.

this bit here made me laugh:

Nerds & Beyond: When you’re talking about those different layers in the humanity building, I think one of the most important aspects in this game is the more “background” or passive dialogue, so dialogue that is prompted in the world and not in the cut scenes.  For instance — the first time I made Gale sneak he immediately complained about his knees, and it was such a real moment where he was just like, “Oh, don’t make me do this. This is not what I’m here for, I’ve got bad knees and I’m not made for this.” Did you have any of those background lines or moments that stick out as being particularly fun to craft?  Tim Downie: I remember the first time I ever had to do waiting, I found it infinitely interesting in so many ways. The idea that I did actually just have to wait and just actually, “Hmm…” Those little things I find really funny because they’re probably the closest to me that the character ever gets. His waiting mannerisms are kind of very English – slightly annoyed and I’m not going to show it to you though because we’re all being very nice, but I’ll do it with a huff and a slightly sarcastic, “Well, that’s great. Another 20 minutes. That’s great.” Those kinds of sentiments I found wonderful and incredibly fun, and funny, to do. 

if you want to read the whole interview for yourself, you can do so here!

[rhenysz]

Your Dead Eyes - Chapter 3

Summary: Lifeless eyes were what haunted your all life, manu people say that death was lurking around your eyes, Maybe it's true. Maybe you just see things that other people don't.

Pairing: Azriel x Archeron! reader fem.

A/n: I... Well, hello. So, Merry Christmas? I didn't fix this properly...

*English is NOT my native language, this fanfic was translated with a little help from a A.i. So, let me know if there are any grammatical errors*

Word count: 3k

Warnings: None that I can remember, some humor, tension , Azriel being a dumb mother hen

previous x next

Cassian, Azriel, and Rhysand had already left when you came downstairs for breakfast. Nesta grumbled that they hadn't even eaten before spreading their wings to the sky, making everything around them flutter – including the newly planted rose saplings of Elain, to her great displeasure.

Feyre often returned home in hopes that the queens had already responded. The delay was noticeable given how long ago the letter had been sent, and it was a shot in the dark trying to guess what might have happened, though you doubted the letter had gotten lost in transit, and, mind you, you weren't foolish enough to think it was their indecision.

They were making the High Lord wait for pure amusement, and maybe a little bit of sadism. The human queens were in control of the situation, and that made everything even more delicious. A power struggle where, for the first time, the weaker ones were in charge. It must have been painful to even consider discarding this succulent opportunity that had been handed to them on a golden platter—one in a million, truly.

Bringing the steaming cup of tea to your lips, you sipped cautiously to avoid burning yourself; there was no pain worse than burning your tongue – well, maybe stubbing your toe, you mused with a hum. A gust of wind passed through your hair, signaling that someone was passing by in a hurry.

“Don’t run around the house, Elain,” Nesta grumbled from her spot at the table, clearly not a morning person. Your second eldest sister slipped on the floor and turned back to stop by your side, placing one of her delicate hands on your shoulder to alert you of her presence.

Taking a deep breath, Elain spoke breathlessly, “A new batch of letters is arriving today!”

Now, this was interesting. You placed your hand on hers, squeezing her hand on your shoulder, turning your head slightly to show your interest in the topic. Not because of the letters, obviously.

“Why don’t you come with me, sister? We can stop by that little craft shop too,” Elain suggested. She certainly knew how to brighten your day, and even though you were avoiding crowds, especially those zealots who called themselves the enlightened ones – and that made your skin crawl – it was hard to resist the opportunity to get out of the house. God knows this place could be suffocating.

Nesta was irritated with anyone who breathed in her direction, Elain would shudder at the mere mention of meetings and queens, and you missed Merina and her pies. No matter how hard you tried, it was difficult to connect with your sisters as well as with Feyre, who no longer lived a human life filled with nuances like yours.

Taking a deep breath, you pushed yourself off the chair and blindly grabbed your beautiful cane, intending to head for the door alone, but Elain was quicker and grabbed your wrist, guiding you somewhat hurriedly toward the exit without saying goodbye to a very grumpy Nesta.

The morning wind hit your face as you crossed the threshold, and the birds’ song pierced your ears like a sweet melody. However, as beautiful as it was, your brow furrowed at the hurry in your sister's movements. Surely, the letters couldn’t be that interesting, not to Elain, at least. She could barely stand still when the topic was on the table. Ah, the gossip you'd have today, sweet sister.

“Is there anything else you want from the city besides the letters?” Your tone was dismissive, but even the dullest of men would see the curiosity behind the question.

Elain tripped over something on the ground and almost pulled you down with her, making you question who the blind sister really was here.

She cleared her throat and finally slowed her pace. The hesitation was palpable, and the arm linked to yours grew tense as she nervously began fiddling with the sleeve of her dress.

“I... I was thinking about looking at some prettier engagement rings, maybe gold...” It came out like a croak, and that left you a little more confused. There was no doubt that Elain had good taste and could spot something beautiful from afar, so it was strange that she wanted to see new rings when she loved hers so much.

“I thought you were crazy about that one,” the sounds of people talking grew louder, and your nose wrinkled from the variety of smells; sweets, savory foods, pig dung, and, beneath it all, the fresh scent of pine and whiskey filled your lungs with a warm, inviting sensation.

“Steel” and “Feyre” and “shame” were the only words you managed to catch through the intoxicating fog of the delicious perfume you inhaled. But that was enough for no question to leave your lips.

Turning your focus back to the surroundings as your sister and cane guided you through the streets, bodies occasionally brushed past you, nearly knocking you down; shouts proclaiming devotion to the divine; more frantic cries from merchants trying to sell their goods to eat at the end of the day, and other sounds that were impossible to decipher.

As you walked, Elain stopped abruptly in her tracks. Confused, you turned your head to look at her but got no answer. Without saying a word, your sister started walking again, leaving the noise of the city behind. You quickened your steps to keep up with her, the wind certainly making your hair a tangled mess. At least you wouldn’t have to see it.

Elain slid a bit in the mud, and with a squeak, you stopped by her side. Her chest rose and fell rapidly, and her lungs struggled to keep up with her breathing. Gods, your sister was trying to kill you just so she wouldn’t have to share the inheritance.

“What in the hell-” you began but didn’t finish. The breeze had risen up your legs, making the hem of your dress flutter and leaving a coolness on your skin, only to disappear faster than it came.

“Azriel?” Azriel? He was the cause of your little sprint? Damn him, what was he doing in such an obvious place?

“Elain,” he greeted your sister, and as he turned to you, he spoke your name in a deep purr, sending a chill down your spine with the tone. You nodded in acknowledgment; your voice no longer belonged to you. “The letter. It’s here.”

Ah, he knew. He already knew the queens' letter had arrived today. How? You didn’t know.

“We were going to see it now,” Elain’s voice was syrupy, soft and sweet, almost like she didn’t know how to speak anymore.

A hum left Azriel’s throat. His trained eyes watched your shy form beside Elain, the corners of his lips tugged upwards but quickly disappeared as he turned his attention back to the eldest Archeron sister.

“Could you fetch it for me, Elain?” Azriel asked gently, and your sister nodded quickly, like a soldier. Not letting go of your hand, she motioned for you to go with her to fetch the letter. “Only you, please.”

Your feet stayed firmly planted, and now the air felt thin. Whatever the Shadowsinger had to say to you was making your nerves bubble.

Elain muttered in discomfort, clearly not wanting to leave you alone with someone she barely knew. Her hand squeezed yours lightly, and you pulled your hand free from her grip, distancing yourself from your sister. With your body facing the man, you encouraged Elain to go. He certainly wouldn’t kill you.

Still, your treacherous mind whispered.

With lips set in a line, Elain quickly made her way to her destination, disappearing into the crowd. The faster she went, the faster she’d be back.

Without your sister nearby, the silence was deafening and uncomfortable, and despite your brief interaction with Azriel, you still found the way his presence surrounded you intimidating.

“Do you have something to say? Or did you just make me stay here for your company?” The words came out sharper than you intended, and perhaps challenging such a powerful fae like him in broad daylight wasn’t the best idea. Shifting your weight, you crossed your arms like a shield. Not that you expected it to stop him.

Your ears perked up when you heard a rough chuckle leave Azriel. His lips pressed together; it wasn’t the response you were expecting.

“I didn’t,” he paused and licked his lips, thinking carefully about his next words. “But I feel like I do now.”

Ah, so much for being mysterious. If this non-human man wanted to make you squirm with anxiety, he was succeeding beautifully.

“And…” your voice carried impatience.

“And I don’t think you should be part of the meeting with the queens.”

Your mind stopped. It felt completely empty, focused only on trying to process Azriel’s words. Letting your arms fall to your sides, you lifted your chin, hoping you were looking at his face as you spoke. “Why? Is there a reason for this?

Simple and shyer than you intended.

Azriel was no longer amused. His face darkened into a scowl as he studied you from your structure to your features – sculpted nose, mouth pulled down, and then, eyes. His eyes were windows to his soul, so sweet that, even if not fully functional, could bring legions to their knees.

And that was the problem.

“The queens aren’t trustworthy, and I don’t want you to be a target. They’re bitter and vile with people…” His words rushed out, his wings tightening behind him, letting the weight of what he had to say burn his tongue. “...weaker ones.”

You bit your cheek until you tasted the faint copper of your blood. Indignation wasn’t the right word to describe what you were feeling, but the disbelief on your flushed face certainly expressed it.

Fragile. The Illyrian who barely knew you for more than a week was insulting you so openly, without a shred of shame. You might not see things like other people, but this made you grow a pair of balls like nothing else, and it wasn’t this male who was going to put you down now.

With clenched fists, you took a step toward him, closing the distance to a breath’s length. The smell of whiskey that had been so enticing returned, but now that you knew who it belonged to, it didn’t seem so intoxicating. Or maybe it was, a little, your mind whispered.

“I don’t think I gave you any right to make assumptions about me, fairy.” You spat the words, especially the scornful nickname you secretly used for him and his brothers.

Azriel growled low, and ah, it wasn’t because of your words.

The rustling of leaves made you step back from the winged male, and quickly, his features softened. Elain stopped next to you, breathless, handing the letter to Azriel, as if it were burning her.

“Here, it arrived last night,” she said before taking your arm and walking away as quickly as possible.

“Thank you,” Azriel acknowledged with a nod. Elain smiled tightly, already guiding you away. His voice came again, but this time as a warning, making your shoulders tense. “Don’t forget what I said.” And then he was gone, swallowed by his shadows as if he had never been there.

Elain furrowed her brow and turned to you, questioning what Azriel had meant.

“Nothing, he didn’t say anything.” Nothing you cared about, at least.

“Hold your breath,” Nesta reprimanded you, her fingers pulling tighter on your corset strings, her delicate fingers and the crushing leather threatening to break your ribs.

“Tighten it any more, and watch me turn purple on this floor, sister.” You gasped out the words with difficulty. Nesta clearly wanted to kill you. You knew she was against you exposing yourself at the meeting, but you never thought she'd deliberately try to kill you.

“Stop whining, it's ready.” Nesta grumbled, and then her presence pulled away from you, her footsteps echoing as she walked to the vanity in front of you. Your head tilted to the side at the sound of objects clinking. She was making a mess, no doubt.

Nesta's heat returned as she stopped in front of you. Her warm hand held your chin firmly but gently, and the bristles of a brush tickled your lips. It was soft, sticky, with a faint scent of roses. Lipstick.

Nesta was dressing you up like a doll. Your chest warmed at the feeling. Having your sister care for and pamper you like this was a delight. It was fleeting, but so appreciated when it happened.

Pulling the brush from your lips, Nesta glanced at you. Long, trembling lashes, cheeks rosy with powder, angelic features. You were beautiful. A slight tug appeared on her lips, satisfied with her work.

“If you keep staring at me, I’m going to start thinking you like me.” Your playful voice earned an eye roll from Nesta, who, with a huff, stepped away from you, already missing the warmth of her presence.

"Don't be fooled," Nesta retorted playfully, you expected it to be a joke as she took your arm in hers and began guiding you out of your room and into the living room. The shrill creak of the door alerted you that you were passing through the main hall, just a few steps away from the comfortable armchairs that Elain had arranged for you. "Sit down, they should be arriving soon."

Groping for the armchair, you slowly lowered yourself until you were seated. Your sister settled beside you, and barely half a second later, a knock echoed on the door. Nesta took a deep breath beside you, and abruptly stood up, walking toward the door. As much for a brief break, a laugh escaped you. Hopefully, she wouldn't hear it.

The sound of what seemed like a crowd of footsteps approached where you were, low, nervous murmurs could be heard, and a melodic voice, different from those you already knew, made your eyebrow raise in curiosity.

"Sister, you look beautiful," Feyre greeted you warmly, her hands on your shoulder for a hug. A little awkwardly, you stood to hug her better. Nestling your face into her neck, you squeezed her tighter. It felt like you hadn't seen her in a decade. The sound of someone clearing their throat made your sister pull away from the hug, to your disappointment. "Sorry. Mor, this is my younger sister."

Mor? Another fae? You turned to where you thought she was. Mor smiled and approached, taking your hand in hers. Her sudden action made you jump slightly.

"It’s a pleasure to finally meet you, Feyre has told me so much about you." Her voice was gentle, her shoulders relaxed, and you let yourself return her smile. She seemed like a woman with a strong spirit. Perhaps Nesta could find a friend in her.

"I'm happy to meet another one of my sister’s friends." You greeted her properly with a nod.

"That's enough, Mor. You're suffocating her." A cold shiver ran down your spine when Azriel's rough voice reached you. The memory of your last encounter still vivid in your mind. Your face twisted into a grimace. Mor huffed and pulled away, muttering about how Azriel was a joy-killer. You could agree with that.

Feyre, beside you, looked at the two of you with suspicion. Since you entered, Azriel hadn't taken his eyes off you, following every movement like a hawk. Your reaction to him only seemed to intrigue her more. With a kiss on your forehead, she guided you to sit again.

It seemed everyone was settling into their places, Elain arriving elegantly late and sitting to your right, Nesta a little farther to your left. You couldn’t tell exactly where everyone else was, but someone was behind you. You could feel the warmth of their presence.

"Stubborn artisan." Damn fae.

Azriel teased you with the nickname. If you could give him nicknames, why not? He took a step closer, leaning against your chair, ignoring the sharp look you shot at him. He bent down slightly, just enough for you to hear, his velvety tone making your hairs stand on end.

"You seemed more inclined to listen that night." Your face heated with the memory. With a small grin, Azriel stood up and turned his gaze away, completely satisfied with himself.

Before you could think of a witty retort, a loud bang echoed through the house, making everyone tense. They’ve arrived. The human queens were finally here. It was time to begin the meeting that would put everything at stake.

TAGLIST: @dearestdaffodils @going-through-shit

@valeridarkness @wallacewillow0773638

@harrystylesfan2686 @carnationworld

@applerubyy @saltedcoffeescotch

@esposadomd @justdreamstars

@microwaveallthedemons @cherryinsalemverse

@stqrgirlies-blog @brujitafantomatico

@bionic-donut @kemillyfreitas

@judig92 @sassybluebird

@frietiemeloen @success78 @mariahoedt @macimads @prongslena @hnyclover @bravo-delta-eccho @cherryinsalemverse @weasleyreidstyles

*Please, if I tagged you wrong or you want to be removed from the taglist let me know!*

[queermoths]

being a good friend to autistic people means giving us the space and time to communicate what we’re trying to say without jumping in to correct us.

you might think you know more than us on the topic because we are struggling to communicate what we mean but that’s not necessarily the case. please consider the very likely possibility that we are struggling with verbal communication and not with knowledge on the topic.

this goes for everyone. allistics, autistics, neurodivergent people, neurotypicals, everyone. stop jumping in to correct us without giving us the time to work through our communication difficulties. just because you are also autistic doesn’t mean you are exempt from doing this to others who are autistic.

[obviously this situation is more nuanced than a short tumblr post can express. please understand that i speak from personal experience with how people interact with me and some of my communication difficulties]

[verdantwyrm]

In Defense of Curly.

I'm going to start off with the biggest thing that this post could ever mention. Obviously this thread is not at all claiming he is innocent, at all, but some of you need to learn what an unkowning bystander is before you all go and jump Curly and make him out to be just as bad as Jimmy, if not worse for his "Inaction" and i'm going to explain in this thread that accounting bystanders to be apart of the crime is not fair, and how the situation with Anya, Jimmy and Curly is actually very realistic on how real life rape situations go, and the spiraling that occours afterwards.

This is going to be a long thread involving the topics of rape and other mental health junk, so strap in!

Anya's rape.

I'm going to immediately preface this section with a very big important thing. I am a victim, so do not think I am talking out of my ass here when I am talking about Anya, kay we cool now? kay.

So, we as the player know what happens. We know that there was a situation between Anya and Jimmy which either lead to rape, or it was enforced upon her, the actual content of the situation we don't know anything about, all we know that it was not consensual. But how it started and the exact details, we know nothing about.

When Anya tells Curly that she is pregnant, she expresses its something bad, but never tells Curly HOW it happened. And Curly's immediete action is to be concerned for her, he is worried for her, and even though he shouldn't, he LETS HER keep the gun as well!

But WE KNOW exactly what happened, as the player, but Curly wasn't told. He was only told that a pregnancy occurred between her and Jimmy, but the actual details of the event- what we know, is not something that Curly knows. We're able to pick up all the signs and see the language and imagery used, but to Curly, it just sounds like they had a hook up and it ended up in a pregnancy.

And that is a totally fair assumption to make, and it is also a completely fair assumption that your best friend wouldn't do such a thing. (I'll touch on this a bit later) So why would his first assumption be rape? Being unhappy about the pregnancy doesn't exactly scream anything in particular, in Curly's mind, she could be unhappy for multiple reasons. That it happened with Jimmy (of all people), that she is stuck on a ship in outer space for what seems like the remainder of her pregnancy, which is an already unsafe environment to be pregnant in and carry a baby to term. So it is a totally understandable and fine thing to not automatically assume rape when there are already plenty of other things at play that could make her and Jimmy unhappy with the outcome.

And plus, when Anya asks what Curly would have done, people seem to be ignoring (or just plain outright not even noticing) the language used. She's asking him what he would have done. The event is already over, it happened, she is asking what he would have done if he had been there, or if he knew earlier; or maybe if he knew at all.

For safety, for whatever reason the cockpit has locks, whatever reason the Meday has a lock, but not any of the bedrooms. Curly acknowledges the absurdity behind the decision, but he doesn't quite understand or grasp why Anya could be asking such a thing beyond simple curiosity because of course someone like Anya would be pointing out something like this, she spends the most time in the med bay, and Curly likewise with the Cockpit.

There are a ton of nuances that go into play when trying to realistically picture what could have or what should have happened on the Tulpar with Jimmy, and I really wish more people were willing to understand that it's not just as black and white, and not people that end up enabling said abusers are not always a willing and knowing crowd. And start maybe thinking about the fact that maybe

Curly really did not know the depth of the situation.

Jimmy's Spiral

The other thing I see tons and tons and tons of people talk about is "why didn't Curly do more about Jimmy!" "Why didn't he see this coming!"

Because, proven by my point of him not noticing Anya's rape, he would not have noticed Jimmy to do such a thing as murder-suicide. They have been friends for a "long time" according to Curly, but what if this was truly the first time he's ever seen Jimmy get this mad? When Anya tells Curly she told Jimmy, his first immediate response is to panic, he knows that Jimmy is an angry man, possibly a violent one as well.

He expected there to be yelling, or worse, physical violence, but Jimmy just.. walked away. And that's what scared him the most, the fact that he didn't react terrified Curly. So he ran to go and check on Jimmy and try to calm him down, which he thought worked, until it didn't. Curly would not have ever expected Jimmy to do this, how could he?This is probably the very first time that he's seen Jimmy spiral so hard, so intensely and in such a short time. He's seen him get mad, get angry, get violent, but those have all been in different situations, which have not as dire consequences as being the co-pilot of a ship with everyone on board. How the hell was he supposed to assume that he would ever do something like this? And that's even further proved by Curly's shock when Jimmy does divert the ship to crash it.

He is in genuine shock that Jimmy would even do this, and it seems like even Jimmy is as well. Despite having made multiple conscious decisions, turning the steering wheel right, getting out of his chair, grabbing the override key, disabling auto pilot and then steering again into the asteroid, he is still in shock that he actually went through with this. He wasn't actually expecting to do it, and then he did, and now he's grasping the consequences of his actions way too late.

And Curly is also just as shocked.

"I didn't- I should have..." is an immediate blame towards himself for not thinking that Jimmy would do something like this, but again, how do you plan for something like this? If Curly knew Jimmy was capable of such collateral destruction, he would not have him as his co-pilot, so it only makes sense that this was the first real and dangerous time he ever saw Jimmy truly spiral into madness. There were all the warning signs, all the red flags, but nothing could have prepared him for this. Why would Curly's first reaction to anything be the worst outcome, you don't do that when you trust someone. And again, this could be seriously the first time he's ever seen Jimmy react like this.

All we know is that Jimmy has had it rough back on earth, that he was jobless for a long time. Nothing else, nothing about him being a criminal, nothing about him being in trouble with the police, just that he has had it hard which can really mean anything.

It was the wrong time, the wrong person, the wrong break with all the wrong tools.

In conclusion, Curly is not entirely innocent. But I think it is extremely fair and very realistic to not automatically assume the worst of someone you thought you could trust. And he genuinely thought he could trust Jimmy, and he reacted pretty realistically and fairly given the circumstances. He absolutely cared about Anya and the rest, and would have done much much more if he had the time or the ability to do so.

Of course he didn't notice the smaller details, he's used to looking at the bigger picture.

[nyerusnova]

Glad to see that Tim being a giant Dick Grayson fanboy is finally being highlighted again, and sparking more discussion especially on their early relationship! (Please gimme more!!! I love them so much, augh!)

Probably as a result of that surge, there seems to be reciprocal chatter on the topic of how young Tim actually felt towards Jason, too. It's honestly pretty interesting, because it's more nuanced than it appears at first glance.

Which means it's very fun to dissect! ✨

There's a degree of subjectivity to keep in mind, because readers are going to have different interpretations of the same scenes, or will pull from entirely different scenes than one another to form their individual view on this topic. That's just how it is in comic book fandom, for many things! Regardless, in this case... if the scale ranges from the extreme of "Jason was Tim's Robin" to the other extreme of "Tim actually hated Jason [as Robin] or thought he was a loser that got himself killed" — the actual truth is closer to the middle, as is often the case.

At least, in my opinion.

Mainly I want to focus on those relatively early days with this post, to highlight Tim's initial(-ish) feelings towards his heroes, and touch on the point at which they really begin to change. This turned into a very long post, though. Brevity is beyond my skill, so grab snacks and water lol. Transcripts for each image will be posted at the very end under the cut.

So, the two storylines I want to cover are "Rite of Passage," which is rolls into "Identity Crisis." (NOT to be confused with the major crossover event "Identity Crisis™" which came years later, and is where Jack Drake dies.... But it sure is an interesting coincidence that Tim deals with the loss of each parent in two similarly named stories!) These take place before Tim is even Robin, and I'll be considering them as one arc for this post.

Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 (July, 1990) -- Pages 1 & 2

"When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero."

"One day, I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit."

To start off, we have this opening from "Rite of Passage." Tim is still in training here, mainly helping Bruce with minor stuff from the cave. His parents are off traveling, alive and well as of these next few pages. He's still bright-eyed and full of wonder. An extraordinarily weird but ultimately innocent kid.

So his view on Jason is positive and fairly simple: a hero, and someone to look up to as Robin. Clearly, Tim here doesn't think Jason was deficient in his role, either as a protector of Gotham or as Batman's trusted partner.

Moreover, Tim already held Dick in very high regard because he was amazingly skilled before he became Robin. To Tim, that's not something he'll ever be able to achieve. Meanwhile, Jason wasn't like that. He was a regular kid without crazy acrobatic training since practically birth. Yet he still went on to be a hero—which is obviously motivational for Tim who finds himself in similar shoes.

It's true that Tim only ever knew or thought of Jason as Robin, and idolized him in that regard. But that's kind of all that mattered to him at that point, because he was this kid who was utterly star-struck by his heroes. Even if he's technically aware of their shortcomings as people, it's overshadowed by the hero-worship.

It was kind of the same with Bruce as Batman at first. (Which was still enough for Tim to risk life and limb to help his beloved hero, before Bruce even knew his name.) Dick was the only one Tim had any sort of "personal" relationship with beforehand, so there is an extra level of attachment—and hence why it was the nidus for his obsession with Batman. Yet even then, it wasn't like he actually knew anything about Dick as a person until later. Until then, Tim's ideas of him were all he had, too. With Jason, Tim just didn't get to know him at any point before his return (oof), apart from what he heard over the years secondhand (also oof).

Ultimately, it's the loss of innocence—along with the ricocheting bullet that is the unresolved guilt of those around him—that begins to change Tim's perception. Not just of Jason, but of things in general.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 13

"I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry, they're full of rage. They want to hit back."

Losing his mother was a major shift for Tim, obviously. This is right after the previous storyline, and Tim's had the worst week or two of his life (so far). His monologue here is a reference to what happened to both Dick and Jason. The unbearable pain of loss, the rage masking the grief underneath. And importantly, that he feels both of them were justified in their anger. (And Bruce too, indirectly.)

The major theme of the aptly named "Identity Crisis" is to mirror aspects of Dick and Jason and Tim's lives—to show how they converged onto the same tragic road. It's something that Tim notices early in the story, and was frightened by. Now, horrifically, it's become a part of him as well. His parents are gone, and he was entirely helpless to do anything about it. Dick was the same way, Jason was the same way. The cycle is repeated.

In particular, the part about him wanting to go to Haiti for revenge—for his mother—sort of struck me as being an intentional parallel to Jason and Ethiopia. It's a bit of a stretch, especially in isolation, so others may see it differently (e.g. the angry ramblings of a grieving child that does sound like something anyone might say). But it always stuck out to me because of how much Tim is compared directly to Jason in this arc. More on that below.

It's not something I can really give an accurate feel of because it's a lot of subtle things that begin to add up, so I'd encourage folks to read this arc themselves to see what I mean. (Or maybe you'll still disagree which is fine too lol.) Again, many things are in reference to both Dick and Jason in relation to Tim, but it's weighted more on Jason's side.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 18

"You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't!"

Tim's grief has begun to pull away the veil of idealism that enshrouded his heroes in his mind. It doesn't apply only to Jason, but to the rest of them. Plus add the fact that Tim's keenly aware that he's being managed, even if the adults around him are careful to not outright say certain things. He still knows.

Bruce, Dick, and Alfred are all worried about Tim potentially turning into "another Jason." They (and mainly Bruce) caution Tim to not ignore his emotions, but they're still concerned that he may be overly eager to prove himself in order to cope, and could get hurt or killed as a result. While they aren't wrong for their caution—especially at how unsettlingly similar all the circumstances are—they aren't very subtle about the elephant in the room.

Imagine how that would affect Tim's perception of his predecessor, especially when he's in the midst of a traumatic event he hasn't had time to fully process. The negative association is pretty much inevitable.

Tim's known from day one that he's walking in Jason's shadow, and now it's become inescapable. Tim went from seeing Jason as a goal to reach, to feeling that unless he surpasses him, he wasn't going to be taken seriously by anyone. However, as of this arc, Tim doesn't even fully come to that point yet.

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Pages 14 & 15

"Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone!"

It's really easy to take away "Tim totally thought Jason got himself killed" as the main thing here, but I think that's missing the forest for the trees.

First some context: Bruce has gone out on a mission to get Scarecrow, and expressly forbade Tim from doing any shenanigans. Meanwhile, Tim is grappling with wanting to prove himself and trying to help Bruce from the cave, all while trying to deal with his emotions. At some point, he falls asleep and ends up having like... exhaustion-grief hallucinations of Dick!Robin and Jason!Robin who confusingly caution yet encourage him. The main theme of this part is facing your fears.

Depending on how you want to interpret the intent of Jason's dialogue here, you could go several ways with it. Ranging from "writer's feelings towards Jason" to "a peek into Tim's mind as his fears manifest as visions of his heroes" or some mixture thereof.

Though Tim argues with Bruce that Batman needs a Robin, we're shown that Tim is understandably scared of joining Batman's "war." He's still not willing to let Bruce go it alone, though, and that's something he feels more strongly than his fear.

Meanwhile, hallucination!Jason's warnings are a lamentation of what happened to him in a way, but it actually exactly describes Tim's current situation even more so. Unlike Jason, Tim is under-trained, under-experienced, doesn't even have a suit of his own yet. But like Jason, he can't sit by and do nothing while someone he cares about is in danger. Tim knows that if he goes out there, he will probably get himself killed, and it will be his own fault. So he's about to disobey Batman's orders, and fly right into danger. If that got Jason killed, then Tim—who is in a way worse position experience-wise—has every chance of ending up the same.

Like... it's about Jason, but it's also about Tim. It's Tim's worst fears made manifest, via the representation of why he is even here in the first place (Jason's death).

That's my theory anyway, but perhaps this is an overly charitable reading of this scene on my end. (Not that I think that makes me wrong lol.) However given that Grant wrote both parts of this arc, and the beginning of which is especially favorable towards Jason, it certainly is something to ponder. I have a lot of thoughts on it I can't expand on here tbh but perhaps that'll be another post.

Anyway, returning to the point of the similarities vs differences between Tim and Jason: since this is the arc that solidified Tim as the next Robin in comic continuity, it makes sense that the writers really pushed the comparisons between the two of them, specifically. (Even though Dick was pretty similar, as going against Batman's orders is the Robin thing to do, it's not his shoes Tim is directly filling.) So making Tim's "debut" story arc mirror Jason's "swansong" is an obvious narrative choice.

To drive home the parallels, I wanted to include this panel from just a few pages prior to the "daydream":

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Page 9

"The suit is magic."

That so distressingly close to Jason's famous "being Robin gives me magic" line (Batman #385, page 6). Given all the previous context, it's hard for me to just dismiss it as pure coincidence. Even if it is, the point still stands. Tim is shown having the some of the same heartbreakingly naive views as Jason once did, right in front of Jason's memorial, just as he's about to go and run off into the night against orders.

I think that speaks for itself. There's a lot to take away from it, if you so choose. Especially given the context of that specific Jason arc.

Alright, back to the main course:

So in the end, Tim actually goes out in civvies and a ski mask because if he fails, then at least he wouldn't bring shame to Robin's legacy™. When he gets fear gassed saving Batman, it's once again both Dick and Jason that he hallucinates encouraging him to push past his fear. (Shout out to the fact that he's literally more afraid of tarnishing the legacy of Batman & Robin than he is of dying.... I'm sure this will not be a recurring thing for him in the future.)

Tim's ideology is shown to be similar to Jason's, and the actions Tim ultimately takes are similar to Jason's... but the outcome is different. And it really isn't just "Tim succeeded where Jason failed." At least, that's not what I took away from this. Rather, Tim had no reason to succeed any more than he had to fail, just that he did. Luck combined with caution because he knew what happened to his predecessor, and the fact that Batman was there to finish the job all made the difference.

You could say (and I know some will) that it's just classic Jason character assassination and the writers trying to implore readers that this new kid is different we promise pls don't hate us look how much better he is! But in this case, that feels like it undermines the whole point of this story. It doesn't fit with what the characters actually say.

Thus, we return to the question of how Tim felt towards his predecessor. And the answer is different from where we started, because Tim is different. Not that different though. Because even though at this point Tim—like all the adults around him—has probably attributed Jason "going off on his own" being what led to his death, Tim still thought of him as a hero to look up to. It's about Robin, first and foremost, yes. But Tim is fully aware of the people who made that suit mean what it does, because it's all intertwined.

Batman vol. 1 #457 (Dec., 1990) -- Page 20

"I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it."

Even further, Tim thinks of it in terms of Jason having given his life for what he believed in, for the legacy that now falls to Tim. There's a sense of gravitas there. He's afraid of failing both the Robins who came before him.

Ultimately do I think Tim adored and loved Jason on the same level as Dick or something? No. It's not comparable. (Dick was like part of some of Tim's earliest memories and everything! They have a really unique bond ok.) Yet Tim was also far from thinking poorly of Jason so early on. Frankly, it seems that Tim thought of Jason as a noble hero and a cautionary tale. Yes he took risks and sometimes went too far, generally stuff that Tim doesn't want to repeat and all that. At the same time, Tim still saw him as someone whose legacy and memory was worth honoring.

It's complicated, which is why I like it so much—because it feels real. Having conflicting feelings towards someone is... so human. Especially someone you never got to know, yet who plays such an integral role in your life via the shadow of their death. How can you feel anything but complicated towards them?

It has to be said that, yes, Tim's views—even before Jason's return—change over the years. He becomes more jaded as a person and is surrounded by people who are even more jaded than him... and who often mention Jason as the "failed Robin." It's something that's hung over Tim's head all the damn time. The curse of the Robin mantle.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Tim's idea of him becomes more akin to "sounds like a skill issue" as the years go by. All bets are off after Jason's return, and the Titans Tower Incident™. At that point it's firmly "I am better than you, loser" lmao.

And... that's all without getting too into things like authorial intent and general "moods" of different DC writers towards Jason at a given point. Or retcons that played a role in his characterization and how other characters talk about him, depending on what "era" you're reading. That's way beyond the scope of this post though!

TLDR; even though young Tim Drake was obsessed with Dick Grayson as Robin, he still looked up to Jason Todd as well. He didn't think of Jason as a cringefail loser until later. :)

(image dialogue transcripts under cut ↓)

Dialogue Transcript for Image 1 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 1):

Narration box (Tim): When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 2 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 2):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Narration box: But he was nothing special, really. Just a boy, who was taught--trained--brought to his full potential by someone who knew how. Just a boy... like me. I know I can do it. I know I can. One day I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit. One day I'll be a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 3 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Page 13):

Tim: I hate him! I hate him! I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry. Full of rage. They want to hit back. They want to fill the hole that's burning inside them.

Bruce: There's more to it than that, son. Much more.

Tim: I know. It's just--I feel--like going to Haiti myself and strangling that creep with my bare hands!

Bruce: The Obeah Man will spend the rest of his life in a prison hospital. He's history. Forget him! But don't fight against your anger. It's natural. Accept it. Live with it. One day it'll be your friend.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 4 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Panels from page 18):

Tim: Because you think my mother's death has upset me too much. Well, it did. But I've taken your words to heart. I can cope. You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't. But that doesn't make any difference, does it? Why can't you have a little faith in me?

Dialogue Transcript for Image 5 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 14):

Narration box (Tim): Blast it! My head's starting to swim. I'm about ready to give up. I almost wish I'd never heard of Batman and Robin!

Vision Dick: Heroes never give up, Tim.

Vision Jason: You know that.

Tim: Dick--! Jason Todd!

Vision Dick: You're training to fight in a war, Tim. It'll last all your life. No matter what, you have to go on fighting.

Vision Jason: Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone! I thought I knew better than Batman. I thought I could run before I could walk. I killed myself, Tim. Because I couldn't wait. Because I couldn't think it through.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 6 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 15):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Vision Dick: Think, Tim. Concentrate!

Vision Jason: You can do it.

Both: You can do it!

Tim, waking up: What--? Robin...?

Narration box (Tim): I must have been daydreaming. They're right, though. There's a solution to everything. I can find it! So here I go again... Whim. Caprice. Doing something without forethought.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 7 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Panel from page 9):

Narration box (Tim): The suit is magic. It gives you power. It hides your weakness. It makes you give it everything you've got. It makes you a hero. If only I could!

Dialogue Transcript for Image 8 (Batman vol. 1 #457 -- Page 20):

Bruce: Are you afraid of it?

Tim: No. It isn't fear. It's more... the suit carries so much history. I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it. Failing them--what they fought so hard to build--that's what worries me!

Bruce: I appreciate that, Tim. That costume weighs a whole lot more than any symbol should... and I'd be failing you if I expected you to bear that weight. So... let me know what you think.

Narration box: A mask has a double edged, he said. It hides your own anxiety as it strikes fear into your enemy.

[drdemonprince]

on the topic of your "bad gender" posts, the one you made mentioning sexual abuse (especially by mothers) is something nobody talks about at all and I'm glad you mentioned it.

My psychiatrist said I have CPTSD after I went through a huge breakdown after putting pieces together that I've been experiencing long-term sexual abuse from my mother (incredibly long story, but you get the idea). I still completely struggle with seeing what she's done and does as abuse, because it is totally buried in my mind that it is not abusive or strange because she is my mother. No matter how many times my friends and partner say it's wrong, or things like "imagine if it was your father", or my DBT therapist is straight up with me and tells me I was groomed by her, I just cannot get the idea that her being my mother specifically makes her behavior acceptable. (especially since I didn't come out as broadly transmasc until I was 18, and was thus seen as a complete extension of her and her body prior to).

I genuinely cannot comprehend where the line is between normal care and abuse because of what I've learned (from her or otherwise) maternal care looks like "compared to" paternal. And I just haven't found anything that's been able to really help me grasp what I've experienced because I just cannot understand why, or what I can do. The only thing I've found with others describing my specific experience is the MDSA subreddit, which is usually just extremely triggering for me to browse (obviously the content, but also the daughter framing and just the everything about it) so I don't go there, but it has shown me that many of us have lived very similar experiences, we just rarely recognized it as abnormal because it was our mother. Perceiving men as the inherently "bad gender" especially in terms of sexual abuse just makes me see red, and is a lot of why this can keep going on unnoticed. I don't really know what I'm trying to say, and I'm sorry to dump this here. It's hard to discuss the nuance of it without being kinda specific. I just saw you mention it and I rarely see the topic brought up, so I guess I just wanted to say thank you for doing so

Thank you so much for sharing this, anon. SO many children endure parentification, spousification, covert incest, and sexual abuse at the hands of their mothers and never get that mistreatment recognized as such because people view women as benevolent, passive caretakers rather than full human beings who are capable of harm. Adults wield immense power over children, particularly parents, and this power structure functions in much the same way men's power over women does -- it makes children into the property of adults, and facilitates abuse.

You are not alone in this experience at all. I'm sure you've heard all about Jeannette McCurdy's Memoir, but if you haven't read it, you might find it affirming. The poet Anne Sexton also sexually abused her daughter, Linda, who wrote a memoir about it called Searching for Mercy Street that is also a powerful read. The host of the podcast The Mental Illness Happy Hour is an adult survivor of covert sexual abuse at the hand of his mother, and he speaks about it quite frequently and thoughtfully on his show, and has interviewed numerous guests who have also survived covert incest. As a male survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of a woman, he's a rare, needed voice, and I've gotten a ton out of listening to it. There's also a self-help book on covert incest that I've read and appreciated called Silently Seduced. You may also find value in Issendai's analysis of estranged parent forums -- lots of documentation of abusive female parents and how they justify themselves to be found there, and the author eviscerates it expertly.

I hope that reading and listening to some of this material will help you to more clearly see the outlines of your own abuse and to recognize it as wrong and distinct from true maternal care. It wasn't my mom who was the chief boundary violator in my household, it was my dad, but a lot of what he did mimicked the traditionally "maternal" abuse profile, and all these resources helped me wrap my head around it a lot better. It's triggering stuff, but I think it is worth plunging these depths when you feel safe to do so, to what ever degree you can comfortably manage. You might want to dig up the Mental Illness Happy Hour episodes specifically about the host's abuse experience first, since that focuses on a man's experience of having been groomed by his mom.

Thanks for writing. My inbox is open if you wanna talk. This stuff was a foundational trauma for me that I have processed heavily and I'm always willing to discuss it more with people who have been there. <3

[fluxweeed]

hi i'm a grouchy old hag muttering to myself in my hut in the woods

1. not everyone finds it hurtful to find out that people are discussing their fic in private discord servers or on tiktok, actually. i for one passionately don't care that people aren't only mentioning my fic where i can see it. ofc i'm curious when one fic gets a sudden unexplained boost in kudos for a few days. am i HURT that i don't know exactly where the new readers are coming from? am i upset that the boost in hits/kudos isn't accompanied with a flurry of praise? am i sad that i can't jump into the discussion? i am not.

2. the messaging of "okay but you wouldn't post the fic if you didn't enjoy validation" makes me want to delete my ao3 immediately kasdjhfg. people post things for all sorts of reasons thank u!! my personal motivation is i'm trying to make myself feel better about making imperfect things!! the idea that by posting fic i'm inherently coming across as seeking praise makes me want to throw up. (since this discussion started, i've considered disabling comments on my fic for this reason – but i'm worried that move is so non-standard that it'll end up coming across even MORE that i want attention 😭)

3. i also pretty firmly disagree with "commenting on fic builds community!" personally i feel the community spirit when i'm in a server discussing which weasley has the biggest dick (percy). i don't feel it when people are being nice to me in my fic's comments. i'd almost go as far as to say community CAN'T be built when one person is praising another bc there's an inherent imbalance. sure, writers can mutually read and comment on each other's fic and become friends/community co-members that way, but what if u don't write? who's in YOUR comments telling u how great u are? idk about anyone else, but when i am in a community space (like a discord server) and someone starts being nice about my fic, i feel awkward; the focus shifts from a shared enjoyment onto something inherently UNshared, because one person is the creator and the others are readers. that's not to say that these interactions shouldn't happen, but imo it's disingenuous to say that's the core of fandom community.

4. i really can't stress enough how crazy it makes writers when they're writing for praise/validation. i've had conversations with very well-known drarry writers where they've been genuinely upset that nobody is reading their fic (the fic in question had hundreds of comments). i've had conversations with people who take part in fests, only to continually sort the works by stats and feel awful that theirs isn't at the top. i've had conversations with people who have had multiple devastating life events happen to them so they're struggling to write, and the lack of New Fic Comment Validation makes them feel 10x worse. i can't help but feel like if you ARE posting for feedback (or "recognition" or however you want to package it), it's genuinely not good for your brain.

5. obviously there's nuance to all of this! it's a big topic! i'm sure everyone experiences this differently! but notice how we're talking about it on tumblr, not in ao3 comments. it would probably be even more productive in a discord server. in a voice chat. you know – fandom community spaces like that.

6. can y'all keep the next round of discussions to like 700 words max pls lmao i have stuff to do